{"id":52787,"date":"2024-08-01T20:01:10","date_gmt":"2024-08-02T00:01:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.filmbuffonline.com\/FBOLNewsreel\/wordpress\/?p=52787"},"modified":"2024-08-01T20:01:10","modified_gmt":"2024-08-02T00:01:10","slug":"comic-creator-credit-redux-update-roy-thomas-descent-into-the-dark-side","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.filmbuffonline.com\/FBOLNewsreel\/wordpress\/2024\/08\/01\/comic-creator-credit-redux-update-roy-thomas-descent-into-the-dark-side\/","title":{"rendered":"Comic Creator Credit Redux UPDATE: Roy Thomas\u2019 Descent Into The Dark Side"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"Roy
Image via Marvel Comics\/ \u00a9 Luigi Novi \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Back in April<\/a>, I covered a controversy in the comic book world surrounding Roy Thomas requesting to have his named attached to\u00a0Deadpool and Wolverine<\/strong> as a co-creator of Wolverine. Well, the movie has been released and his name is listed during the closing credits as co-creator.<\/p>\n

In case you didn’t read my previous article, Thomas’ claim to creatorship of Wolverine comes down to him advising Len Wein that the character should be A) Canadian, B) named Wolverine and C) be small and scrappy. If you think that is weak evidence to claim credit for the character’s creation, you now understand the animosity aimed in Thomas’ direction. Add to that that Thomas was a salaried employee of Marvel at the time Wolvie was created and Thomas waited until all the other co-creators had died to make his credit push, and you have people are up in arms.<\/p>\n

But even if all three are true, and Wein only confirmed the first two when he was alive (and The Comics Journal<\/a> cast doubt on those two claims as well), they aren’t everything that makes Wolverine a great character. Here’s a hot take for you: even Len Wein and Herb Trimpe didn’t have a lot to do with making Wolverine the great character he is. His healing factor? His Adamantium skeleton? His ties to Japan? His being over 200 years old? The way he looks without his mask on? All introduced after Wein and Trimpe–and Thomas–were done with the character. That is just the way comic characters work<\/a>.<\/p>\n

But back to Thomas. A smart man would have just basked in that ill-gotten victory and let it be. That he should ignore all the haters and just enjoy what he got. But Roy Thomas is not that kind of man. On July 30th, Thomas published his “review<\/a>” of Deadpool and Wolverine<\/strong> on The Hollywood Reporter website. I put review in quotes because Thomas only talks about the film for under 70 words of the 930-word piece.<\/p>\n

What does Thomas use the 860 remaining words for? Equal parts whining about the “ill-considered ill will” he gotten since he claimed credit for Wolverine, taking credit for Herb Trimpe getting his name on the film, and once again making his case for deserving credit, going so far as to state that “I strongly feel my name should have come first, not last, in the Wolverine grouping, since the Wolverine character was my concept on which Len and the others built…”<\/p>\n

Sigh.<\/p>\n

I don’t know what response he was hoping to get, but he got more of that “ill will” from the comic book community.<\/p>\n

Mark Waid (Kingdom Come writer)<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Just straight-up fucking pathetic.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Ty Templeton (Justice League artist)<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Ah, Roy Thomas. I used to love you, but it’s all over now. I hope it was worth it, because I’ll never read your work again.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Rob Liefeld (co-creator of Deadpool):<\/a><\/p>\n

For 49 years I can say that I was friends with the Wolverine creators, Len Wein & Herb Trimpe. I met and admired another on the Wolverine creator chain, John Romita Sr. They are all passed away, no longer with us. At this point I have to believe that the counsel being given to the former EIC is terribly compromised whoever that may be. IMHO, someone should have thrown themselves in front of this article before it was sent.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Bill Sienkiewicz (Moon Knight and New Mutants artist):<\/a><\/p>\n

When shitting the bed ceases to be an unfortunate facet of flawed humanity & hubris and instead threatens to overshadow one\u2019s entire legacy.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Marc Andreyko (Manhunter writer)<\/a>:<\/p>\n

Good God, Roy Thomas has become a pathetic asshole. Can some of my influences NOT turn into needy dickheads? please?<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Gail Simone (Birds of Prey. X-Men writer):<\/a><\/p>\n

In case you are wondering, I am 100% Team Len Wein\/ Christine Valada.
\nNo, 1000%<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And if you click any of those links, you’ll find a whole bunch more creators piling on Thomas. These are some of the biggest names in the industry, not some up and comers looking for a little sway by taking potshots at a legend.<\/p>\n

\"Roy
Image via DC Comics<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Oh, about that. I’m calling it. Time of death: July 30, 2024, 4:58pm. Rest in peace, Roy Thomas’ reputation and legacy. A viewing will be held this Friday at the Our Lady of Perpetual Ego. Refreshments will be served.<\/p>\n

Now, this isn’t to say that there aren’t creators on Roy Thomas’ side. However, the majority has taken issue with his credit grab. All because Thomas has no idea how to read the room.<\/p>\n

The question I have is this: what is making Thomas do this. Is it a money thing? Is it an ego thing? A little bit of both? I vote the latter. He was recently charging $110 per book<\/a> for a recent CGC signing event around\u00a0Wolverine #1,\u00a0<\/em>which was $20 more than what Chris Claremont was charging, and Claremont wrote the issue in question. He probably wouldn’t have even been invited if it wasn’t for the stink he made about getting credit in the movie. Being listed as Wolverine’s creator means more money for Thomas.<\/p>\n

On the other hand, at cons and store signings, Thomas charges anywhere from a $1 donation to the Hero Initiative<\/a> or $15 into his pocket<\/a>, depending on the type of autograph you want and where the signing is being held.\u00a0 If you want extras like a dedication or to have it witnessed by a CGC verifier, it will cost you more. On the other, other hand, The\u00a0Hollywood Reporter<\/a>, the go to stop for everything Roy Thomas, apparently, also reported that the store that brought him out for the $15 signing paid for his airfare, and most likely paid for a hotel for himself and his manager, John Cimino.<\/p>\n

That signing mentioned by The Hollywood Reporter in the last paragraph, was unusual for one reason–it took place on June 13, 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic. What kind of manager takes his then 79-year-old client to a Texas town (Duncanville) where on that day of the visit the county it resides reported<\/a> 345 new coronavirus cases, bringing the total to 13,930, including 283 deaths? John Cimino, that who. My daughter had her elementary school graduation in New York State two days later and had to do it remotely, but Cimino has his elderly, and therefore at-risk, client sign comics for $15 a pop.<\/p>\n

Cimino seems to be a mastermind behind a lot of the ill will generated towards Thomas. Gary St. Lawrence posted this on the Mark Waid post linked above:<\/p>\n

A few years ago, I was at Phoenix Con with Brian Augustyn (trivia panels, contests, etc.) and I went to chat with Roy a few tables down from us. I talked to him for several minutes, basically asking for his blessing on a JSA vs. Invaders\/Liberty Legion chess set I was making. Roy was happily all-in on the idea, if I’d make one for him. Suddenly Cimino showed up, very surly, wanting to know what I was doing there. I gave him the cliff notes, and he said I couldn’t do it without paying Roy an advance (on something I wasn’t selling) and would need to get lawyers involved. I said that all I was asking for was Roy’s acknowledgment (which I didn’t need). Cimino got even more surly and said I needed to leave the table and stop bothering Roy. I thanked Roy for his time. Roy thanked me for thinking of him and told Cimino to give me Roy’s email. Cimino scrawled it on a Post-It and said “He’ll never see it” when he handed it to me. I told Cimino he was an asshole, and he sneered and told me to get lost.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

That in turn garnered this reply from Dan Gvozden:<\/p>\n

This is my exact same experience with Cimino. Roy couldn\u2019t have been more humble and warm, but Cimino ran through laundry lists of credits that we had to apply to both him and Roy to publish the interview I was conducting.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And another response in a similar vein from Kristina Fritzinger:<\/p>\n

I met him last year and Roy was super sweet. I called him a creator for one of his characters and he immediately corrected me and said co-creator, he seemed rather stuck on making sure anyone he\u2019s worked with gets their flowers too. His manager however was extremely rude. I had books to sign and also asked Roy if he would sign a morbius dvd as well and he said yes and was ready to sign and his manager came over and started yelling how that would cost extra and tried to take it from Roy. The extra fee was $10 and I was really offended he acted like I was trying to somehow trick Roy into not charging me extra for a movie when I was first just trying to find out if it was even possible, we hadn\u2019t even gotten to money yet. Guy was just extremely aggressive for no reason.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Now, these are just three random examples on an already negative post about Thomas. But they seem to portray Cimino as a controlling influence on Thomas, one that appears to be overly concerned with strongarming fans out of their money and promoting himself as well as Thomas. You can imagine Cimino whispering in Thomas’ ear as he wrote this “review,” including the part where Thomas thanks Cimino for standing by him.<\/p>\n

Cimino has added Thomas’ longtime friend, Gerry Conway, to his client list<\/a>. Conway was briefly editor-in-chief of Marvel in 1976. There weren’t a lot of heroes created at Marvel in 1976–the most notable were Nova and Spider-Woman, and neither appear to be created on Conway’s watch. But if articles start popping up about Conway getting his name listed as co-creator of Nova when his Disney+ show starts airing, don’t be surprised.<\/p>\n

If you were one to think that Thomas might have seen the reaction and had a moment of clarity, a moment of shame, well, read this screed that was posted on The Roy Thomas Appreciation Board on Facebook:<\/p>\n

\"Roy
Image via Facebook<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

There is so much to unpack here, but I’ll start with this: if Thomas thinks that he is being chased by murderous clowns, then he has way bigger problems than getting credit for Wolverine.<\/p>\n

Thomas’ words and defiance will only add fuel to the flames. It is a mix of hubris, ego and playing the victim. He thinks people are mad at him only because little old him asked for credit, totally ignoring that the anger comes from him waiting until all other claimants are dead–including his supposed friend Len Wein–before pressing for the credit or that, as a salaried employee, the thing he wants credit for was part of his job description, a job he was paid handsomely for.\u00a0 He innocently says he only asked for credit, not money, when he knows damn well that the credit comes with more financial opportunities like the CGC signing mentioned above. He thinks he shows himself as a conquering hero, but he just comes off as an arrogant charlatan.<\/p>\n

When the original story broke earlier this year, Thomas reputation took a hit, and his good name became tarnished. This review destroyed both in one fell swoop. I hope whatever he got was worth it. There might be hundreds of people who do not know comics who now think of him as Wolverine’s creator because his name appears in the end credits of a movie. But there are many comic book fans and creators who once looked up to Thomas and now see him as a self-centered opportunist. Is squandering all that respect and admiration worth it for a few more bucks in signing fees? Thomas would probably say yes. All I have to say is that I have to go remove\u00a0Roy Thomas’ Alter Ego <\/em>from my pull list at my local comic shop.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In Roy Thomas’ quest to become the hero in the creation of the character of Wolverine, he has irrevocably become the villain. <\/div>\n

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